Ringo Moderator DR-Resident, Moderator for "The Weather" member is offline
Johnny Ringo, 1850 - 1882
Joined: Mar 2009 Gender: Male Posts: 386 Location: Playa Chiquita
NEED GROUNDS KEEPER. « Thread Started on Apr 24, 2009, 4:46pm »
HELP WANTED. Private mini-estate in Playa Chiquita, Sosua area. Grounds, gardens, pools, car, handyman... mostly outside work. Security.
I have to let our guy go. After two years he has started to screw up everything and pulling the "I don't understand" routine. Today he screwed up the pool and filter so now I have to empty the pool and change the filter sand. This is big bucks and a big pain.
I think that he WANTS to be fired so he can collect. I've started to document. ______________ Live in with 2 nights and one day off. All legal holidays paid. Vacation and sick days as earned. Normal working hours 7 to 5 with 1 hour lunch. Food not provided.
Small garage living space, sectioned off. Bath room, stove, refer/freezer, drinking water and furnished. (needs major cleaning) Laundry done.
Some English a plus. Will train IF they have some skills and WILL LEARN. Must have references. No drama, no bull, no shyt and I don't care about their family or problems.
The one before I caught steeling I chased out of here with his machete.
Will consider able gringo/couple to live in small apt. in trade for work.
DomingoDeb Full Member Guardian of the Chat member is offline
You bring out the Devil in me
Joined: Apr 2008 Gender: Female Posts: 117 Location: North of Toronto, On, CA
Re: NEED GROUNDS KEEPER. « Reply #2 on Apr 25, 2009, 10:57pm »
I ...... personally.................don't like the taste of Brugal \
Ringo.....I really hope we haven't lost you. I try to be here when I can be................I know it is not enough......................................I really know the lonely feeling.......being the only one here........I've done it many times................................................................................................................... ...but it is no reason to leave................................................................................................................... ....we are all good people..............................................................who wanted a better place to voice our feelings.........................................................................I......personally miss you..............I was getting to enjoy you morning weather reports............I may not be able to be there year round but I love the 'contact'.
Ringo Moderator DR-Resident, Moderator for "The Weather" member is offline
Johnny Ringo, 1850 - 1882
Joined: Mar 2009 Gender: Male Posts: 386 Location: Playa Chiquita
Re: NEED GROUNDS KEEPER. « Reply #3 on Apr 26, 2009, 7:05am »
Oh, I'm still here! Just wondering around within the echos of my own mind while draining the pool and doing other things that my soon the be X grounds keeper does not do anymore.
I think that he WANTS to be fired so he can collect. I've started to document. ______________
Thank you, Ringo
You're kidding, right? Don't even bother. You will not avoid paying liquidation, even if you have solid proof.
I have a friend who had various things come up missing in his house. He installed a hidden motion activated camera, and got VIDEO of the culprit taking money out of his wallet.
In our manufacturing company, we caught employees red handed stealing expensive components on dozens of occasions.
In every single case, liquidation was awarded by the authorities.
Learn to accept to cannot win these types of cases. The sooner you get rid of the bad employee, the sooner you can begin the "healing process"
You will not avoid paying liquidation, even if you have solid proof.
Correct. I also know of several cases that all went in favour of Sr. Dominicano.
After I had a few disappointments in "labour relations" I no longer employ people on a permanent basis but rather in "ajuste". After a certain work is completed "se van".... I am tired to see somebody work well for three months only and then sit in the shade waiting for his liquidation payments.
You will not avoid paying liquidation, even if you have solid proof.
Correct. I also know of several cases that all went in favour of Sr. Dominicano.
After I had a few disappointments in "labour relations" I no longer employ people on a permanent basis but rather in "ajuste". After a certain work is completed "se van".... I am tired to see somebody work well for three months only and then sit in the shade waiting for his liquidation payments.
I think that you both are right in that I will not have much of a chance. But I think that the write ups have to be done.
But before I go to far I need to have a replacement so that as the old goes out the gate, the new comes in. Nothing like a PO'ed X employee wanting to get even. Even with his liquidation.
DomingoDeb Full Member Guardian of the Chat member is offline
You bring out the Devil in me
Joined: Apr 2008 Gender: Female Posts: 117 Location: North of Toronto, On, CA
Re: NEED GROUNDS KEEPER. « Reply #9 on Apr 27, 2009, 11:13pm »
I think I want to come and work there. I can work for 30 years and not get what these guys get.
Pension plans are not what they used to be.
Whow....I would love to come and take care of your property Ringo. It might be the best job I ever had. Too bad that 'life' get's in the way of our dreams.
Ringo Moderator DR-Resident, Moderator for "The Weather" member is offline
Johnny Ringo, 1850 - 1882
Joined: Mar 2009 Gender: Male Posts: 386 Location: Playa Chiquita
Re: NEED GROUNDS KEEPER. « Reply #10 on Apr 28, 2009, 7:07am »
Thank you Samanave for the information and links.
Ddeb? If you want the job you better say so and be here tomorrow. Expect a slight pay cut but you do get a room. Well sort of a room. Be ready to pull that barge, lift that bale and climb that tree.
Thanks to one of our members knowing someone, we are interviewing this AM.
Ringo Moderator DR-Resident, Moderator for "The Weather" member is offline
Johnny Ringo, 1850 - 1882
Joined: Mar 2009 Gender: Male Posts: 386 Location: Playa Chiquita
Re: NEED GROUNDS KEEPER. « Reply #11 on Apr 28, 2009, 8:44am »
These are the calculations for his liquidation based on 2 years. Included are accrued Christmas and vacation time.
Note that without giving 28 notice, I pay an additional $9,047.36 RD. On the other hand; IF I had given him notice I would worry about how much he would steel and break/sabotage.
Sumatoria de salarios: $92,400 Salario promedio mensual: $7,700 Salario diario promedio: $323.12 Tiempo laborado: 2 años Pre-aviso: 28 días, $9,047.36 Cesantía (vieja): $0.00 Cesantía (nueva): 42 días, $13,571.04 Salario vacaciones (art. 177): 14 días, $4,523.68 Tiempo calculado para navidad: 4 meses Salario navidad (art. 219): $2,566.67
You will not avoid paying liquidation, even if you have solid proof.
Correct. I also know of several cases that all went in favour of Sr. Dominicano.
After I had a few disappointments in "labour relations" I no longer employ people on a permanent basis but rather in "ajuste". After a certain work is completed "se van".... I am tired to see somebody work well for three months only and then sit in the shade waiting for his liquidation payments.
Be extremely cautious with "ajustes"
If an employee is contracted to do work on a regular basis, even as an "ajuste", you will still get hit with liquidation demands.
Ajustes are mainly for one time deals, such as repairing a planta, pruning a tree, etc, etc.
If a person is around your property all day, he'll be considered a permanant employee.
Labor boards see "ajustes" as a deliberate attempt to get around paying liquidations.
Having said that, maids and groundskeepers are NOT entitled to liquidation pay.
If the person you want to get rid of is one of these, be advised you DO NOT have to pay them anything.
You may have to retain a lawyer to explain this to them.
Correct. I also know of several cases that all went in favour of Sr. Dominicano.
After I had a few disappointments in "labour relations" I no longer employ people on a permanent basis but rather in "ajuste". After a certain work is completed "se van".... I am tired to see somebody work well for three months only and then sit in the shade waiting for his liquidation payments.
Be extremely cautious with "ajustes"
If an employee is contracted to do work on a regular basis, even as an "ajuste", you will still get hit with liquidation demands.
Ajustes are mainly for one time deals, such as repairing a planta, pruning a tree, etc, etc.
If a person is around your property all day, he'll be considered a permanant employee.
Labor boards see "ajustes" as a deliberate attempt to get around paying liquidations.
Having said that, maids and groundskeepers are NOT entitled to liquidation pay.
If the person you want to get rid of is one of these, be advised you DO NOT have to pay them anything.
You may have to retain a lawyer to explain this to them.
Now I'm confused. He is a full time grounds keeper for the last two years. I have not paid him extra for anything that he has done.
What is the english translation for "adjustes"?
I don't have to pay him anything? At all? Nothing he can really do legally? I may have my Atty. do the bye bye part.
Move this into the Liquidation thread if you wish boss.
Let him come forward with his expectations. I'd offer him something well below the above amount mentioning that he would have to employ a lawyer to get more.
Sometimes one gets away with half the calculated sum.
If an employee is contracted to do work on a regular basis, even as an "ajuste", you will still get hit with liquidation demands.
Ajustes are mainly for one time deals, such as repairing a planta, pruning a tree, etc, etc.
If a person is around your property all day, he'll be considered a permanant employee.
Labor boards see "ajustes" as a deliberate attempt to get around paying liquidations.
Having said that, maids and groundskeepers are NOT entitled to liquidation pay.
If the person you want to get rid of is one of these, be advised you DO NOT have to pay them anything.
You may have to retain a lawyer to explain this to them.
Now I'm confused. He is a full time grounds keeper for the last two years. I have not paid him extra for anything that he has done.
What is the english translation for "adjustes"?
I don't have to pay him anything? At all? Nothing he can really do legally? I may have my Atty. do the bye bye part.
Move this into the Liquidation thread if you wish boss.
"ajuste" is adjust, but in this reference, it mean by contract, usually informal.
A plumber comes to your house to fix a sink. He says he'll do the job for 1000 pesos. You say yes. He fixes it, you pay, he leaves.
That is an example of "by adjustment"
A groundskeeper is not entitled to any liquidation, nor are maids.
You have an attorney? Why in the world are you asking us, for petes sake? LOL
Seriously, if this guy gave you two years of good service, it would be a kind gesture on your part to give him something, but nothing near 29K+ pesos. Maybe something like 10K pesos.
Be extremely cautious with "ajustes" If an employee is contracted to do work on a regular basis, even as an "ajuste", you will still get hit with liquidation demands. Ajustes are mainly for one time deals, such as repairing a planta, pruning a tree, etc, etc. If a person is around your property all day, he'll be considered a permanant employee. Labor boards see "ajustes" as a deliberate attempt to get around paying liquidations.
So far I've had good experiences with "ajustes". In most cases I dealt with an "encargado" who would then bring his team of workers to do some finca clearing. I agreed on a lump sum with him and he was responsible for the work done properly. None of those "contracts" lasted more than two weeks.
At the moment he's working with two Haitians again but on a daily basis in order to see how well they work. After a few days I'll decide how and if to go along...
But I know either way "ajuste" or not, it's never easy...
Ringo Moderator DR-Resident, Moderator for "The Weather" member is offline
Johnny Ringo, 1850 - 1882
Joined: Mar 2009 Gender: Male Posts: 386 Location: Playa Chiquita
Re: NEED GROUNDS KEEPER. « Reply #17 on Apr 29, 2009, 5:26pm »
I want to thank everyone here and others that have sent me email.
I have had input from "kick him out with nothing" to "after 2 years he should get it all". Very interesting and I hope a learning experience for everyone. Some have nothing to due with law but moral or personal points of view, that I can also respect. It is not just how the law is interpreted to meet the legal commitments but how the law can be and is interpreted and how people handle various situations. Some good examples based on real experience have been enlightening. Some of them turning out OK and others having to go through minor nightmares.
JD. I have consulted with several others, including our atty and waiting for him to advise. I have learned that atty advise does not always follow the letter of the law. If I just came up with an answer, then we would not be sharing and giving different points of views. Part of why I asked the question was able to learn from this interaction. Calling the atty. is easy. Reality learning is not. Thank you for your input and advice.
We do have a new man starting this Friday AM and when he arrives, I will let the other go. We hope to be fair with no hard feelings, but I think that everyone knows that that is most likely not going to happen.
Ringo Moderator DR-Resident, Moderator for "The Weather" member is offline
Johnny Ringo, 1850 - 1882
Joined: Mar 2009 Gender: Male Posts: 386 Location: Playa Chiquita
Re: NEED GROUNDS KEEPER. « Reply #18 on Apr 30, 2009, 10:29am »
The final word, so far.
We had our friends book keeper/acct. call the Labor Dept. We also have a verification from our Atty.
Our grounds keeper is Domestic help. That is he works within our private house/grounds doing normal domestic duties. Therefore he is not entitled to any liquidation or advanced notice benefits.
He is entitled to: Accrued vacation being over 1 year in service. 14 days. Accrued Christmas pay. 14 days.
TOTAL owed. $7,090.35 RD.
We have this printed out on the legal form. After he signs it he will be given that exact amount and the papers (2) will be noted as paid in full. A witness will also sign.
Anything else that we may or may not pay is up to us.
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